Wayland’s Words

Hello to All,

Neon John wrote:

Look at how much farther ahead John is simply by
virtue of being given high performance batteries and the one-off
custom-built motor. …’

Jeff Shanab wrote:

Ouch, a little harsh don’t you think? I think john is fast because he
bloody well worked at it. he earned the sponsership he now gets by
proving himself. he developed the dual motor in this application , the
one off custom built motr came from his lessons of blowing things up, in
the best spirit of racing.

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate this very much.

I do take issue with Neon John’s comments that I was ’simply given’ batteries and a one-off custom motor.
Simply given batteries? There was nothing simple about arriving to today’s status of being sponsored by Aerobatteries and Hawker. Do I appreciate it? Of course I do. But to imply it was simple seems to be quite a slap in the face.

As to that motor that was ’simply given’ to me as well, think again! The twin motors that were morphed into the Siamese 8 were my motors, motors I paid for from my work in the early beginnings of NetGain and the build-up of what was then known as Bad Amplitude, the NetGain rail dragster back in the Chicago area. Though I received sponsorship from Dutchman Motorsports while we were developing the custom stainless steel armature shaft in the form of deep discounts, some freebie items, and lots of personal free labor and moral support from the Dutchman himself, I paid money for materials. Jim Husted did donate all his time and labor, plus copper, misc. motor parts, and shop materials…again, very much appreciated. Jim however, would be the first to tell anyone that I wasn’t simply handed a one-off custom motor. Tim Brehm, too, was a big part of the Siamese 8 project…so was the Madman Rich Rudman, and along with the Dutchman, the three of them made long trips over into central Oregon to Jim’s shop in Redmond. The five of us spent many late night hours huddled around lathes, presses, and other machinery at Dutchman’s machine shop. I also received lots of help, as I always do, from Marko Mongillo at the metal shop, where we made the heavy duty motor brackets. Of course, I return the favor when I help Marko, as I’ve been doing for the past month or so as we’re working on his ‘Baby Blue’ re-conversion project.

The amount of time and energy we all put into the Siamese 8 project would exhaust most folks, trust me! I’d say I’ve got close to 3K of my own money into this one-off custom motor. I deeply respect Jim Husted and am in awe of his fine craftsmanship, but let there be no mistake, all aspects of the Siamese 8 had to be approved by me, and most all of the racing tricks put into this motor were learned the hard way, by me. Keep in mind also, that I openly share all info about everything I do in regards to racing and the items we either design or modify. One of my goals is to make it easier for others to join in and race and or daily drive their EVs. You can check with anybody, and you’ll never hear one word about me slamming the hood shut, or cloaking the car from view, or refusing to share what I know with other competitors, friends, fellow racers, or just strangers interested in what we do. In fact, I’ve kept everyone on this EVDL abreast of the entire project with my constant postings, so I find it odd that Neon John would make the comment ’simply given’….oh well.

See Ya…..John Wayland

Hello to All,

I know what you’re all saying about now, Wayland’s up to more weird stuff again. What’s up with this goofy title? Read on.

I had written:

Sunday is White Zombie time, and as I type this, Tim Brehm is on his way here. The new pack of Aerobatteries are being installed today, but this time there’ll be 30 of them, not the regular 29….this is racing and if we can push something a bit to go quicker and faster, than so be it. I’ve also got the master’s OK on my 360V plan, so it’s not as if he doesn’t know what I’m up to

The battery change-out went very smoothly. Of course, with the image of plasma balls still very clear in my mind, when ever either adding or removing the stubby thick copper bus bars between the terminals of numerous powerful Hawkers, extreme care and diligent work are a must.

About the ‘need’ to replace the previous 348V stack of Hawkers, came this second request from my friend Myles Twete:

If Hawkers can “routinely” dish out 800+ amps without harm, why did you need a new set in less than a year >of drag racing? I know I asked this before and maybe I missed the answer, but your claim does beg the >question.

When we race our EVs and have a battery company sponsoring the batteries to us, they want us to push them to the limits. We get to push the envelope and hopefully set a few records, they get real world R & D and get to see how far their products can be stressed. It’s a win -win deal. What I have talked about in the past about, is the ability of the tough Hawkers to take a full year of racing punishment with no battery failures. This is a fact, none of the Hawker Aerobatteries failed, ever. Other batteries I’ve used have blown up, melted, reversed cells, etc. Remember Woodburn ‘04? I tried the imported made-in-China 29 lb. 35 ahr 12V UPS style batteries under the Exide name (because I could not get Hawkers at the time) in White Zombie. About 100 ft. after launch with a 900 amp current draw, two batteries blew up. I swapped out the two blown batteries with fresh ones, then turned the current limit down to a dismal 500 amps, and promptly blew a third battery up right at the start line. Clearly, these batteries even at more weight and 9 more ahrs of capacity, were not close to being as robust as were Hawkers. I’ve also blown up Optimas under the duress of drag racing. To be fair, I later went with the made-in-America Exide Orbitals and as many will remember, had fantastic reliability and awesome power delivery, though these ‘are’ 40 lb. larger sized batteries. Hawkers too, can be destroyed, but my point is, that they can be pushed more to the extremes, pound for pound, than any other lead acid battery I’ve ever used…period!

I wouldn’t dispute that Hawkers are the cats meow, but I gotta know—did high currents and heat kill >those Hawkers or did lack of batt regs do it, or what?

Again, neither high current or high heat killed any of the 29 Aerobatteries used in White Zombie. Now, any time you heat lead acid batteries to 120-130 degrees while racing, and at the same time, you suck 1100 amps from these small 24 lb. batteries, it certainly isn’t ‘good’ for them. After a racing season is over and the batteries are allowed to sit idle after repeated cookings at the track, they do loose capacity…they aren’t the same as brand new anymore. That said, the Hawker AeroBatteries delivered as promised. In fact, with their 5 second rating at 925 amps, I’d say that at 1000 amps most of the way down the track for 12 seconds, they exceeded our expectations. The majority of the 29 batteries are still rock’n a year later after all those HARD runs and high temp racing nights where we got the batteries soooo hot, touching the rear seat area aluminum tray would almost burn one’s hand.

We ‘did’ super heat the pack on the last night where we tried to bust into the 11s. After the last run of the night, when Tim returned from the track to the pits, the Lexan cover over the rear seat area pack was fogged, so we managed to gas some of the batteries. Many months later in my story ‘The Names have been Changed to Protect the Innocent’ (posted at the Plasma Boy web site under ‘Wayland’s Words’, I mentioned how a few of the batteries seemed to be out of equalization compared to the rest. A few weeks ago, Tim and I pried off the lid on one of the lazy batteries and found pooled electrolyte in the battery top that had collected after the gassing incident last year, which explains why a few batteries were lagging behind all the rest of them. It was more than likely the extreme temperatures we took the batteries to, more than the bump up from 1000 to 1100 battery amps that caused this. I have spares that could be dropped in to replace any weak batteries to restore the pack to near new status, but with a brand new pack of batteries on hand, it just made sense to use them instead. All of the batteries that were in the trunk location are still perfect and read 12.97V + or - a few hundredths after a refresh charge, most likely due to how they stayed a bit cooler with their compartment floor exposed to 100+ mph cooling air. All but a few in the rear seat compartment read the same 12.97V + or - a few hundredths after a refresh charge, so except for the few that we pushed a little too hard, the batteries are still in excellent shape. These batteries will go on to power up other projects.

From Myles’ 1st email:

Is it typical for racers to replace their batteries annually….

Let’s see…. is it typical? No. Usually, getting sponsorship for racing batteries is very difficult. The norm is, that once you do get a sponsored pack, the batteries have to last for several years. This time around, with the car performing up to and past expectations, and especially with Dick Brown’s help (AeroBatteries), Hawker has been 100% behind our efforts of pushing the performance envelope with their batteries. After doing exactly as we said we’d do…set a new world record ‘in the 12s’, they were more than pleased. This year we’re looking towards the 11’s, and realizing how important it is to have a strong pack to achieve an ET in the 11’s, I requested a fresh pack for the 2006 season. I’m very grateful Hawker has once again, stepped up for us.

OK, back to Sunday’s battery removal -installation. We had to find a spot for the 30th battery. Unfortunately, the rear seat area and trunk area battery enclosures had not a bit of extra space for the 30th battery. I decided to place this battery in-between the two packs and mounted it in its own aluminum tray piggy-backing it to the aluminum support bracket just behind the rear seat bulkhead. Though not as tidy as having it fit inside one of the trays with the rest of the batteries, it does look ‘interesting’ and it offers a full view of what these batteries look like. We topped off the new 360V pack with .5 amp charge, and 5 minutes after the charger was shut down, the pack rested at, get this, 406 volts! Driving the car up and out the shop driveway skimmed away the surface charge and the pack rested at 391 volts. Tim and I took a sedate 5-6 mile cruise, which include a 2 mile ~4% grade to negotiate and were amazed to see the pack not falling below 365 volts or so under the load. 40-45 mph cruising had the battery current draw so low that the 1500 amp analog Simpson meter’s (with its 20 amps increments) needle barely moved. I estimate the average current was between 10 and 15 amps. After the short drive, we returned to recharge the pack.

About a half hour later, there was still good light in the late afternoon-early evening for taking a few digital photos, so we drove the car over to the neighborhood park for a little photo shoot thing. Tim got a little nervous when I directed him to drive up and into the park using the paved walking paths clearly marked ‘No Motor Vehicles Allowed’. It was OK, I’ve done this before with Blue Meanie and had gotten away with it. The Datsun 1200 is small enough, it can drive on the paved walkways to where the tires stay on pavement all the time. I do respect those at the park using the walkways, and if I find folks near us, I ask if it would bother them, of course, taking the opportunity to point out the car is electric powered and won’t offend them with noxious fumes and all. As in previous park car stuff, everyone I talked with seemed thrilled that we had brought an electric car. On this warm night, there were quite a few people enjoying the park. As Tim and I slowly and carefully glided White Zombie past young families with their small children playing on swing sets and past couples walking their dogs, we got quite few smiles and slightly surprised looks, but the best one came from a little kid, maybe five years old. As the white car with all the colorful stickers rolled past, she said “Look mommy, it’s the ice cream car!”

See Ya……John Wayland

Less than 3 weeks until the High Voltage Nationals!

Note: Photos of the new battery pack are up at the web page in the White Zombie section under ‘More Voltage’
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com

Hello to All,

I got an interesting phone call Friday night from one of our local EVers here in Portland, Jay Donaway. He was wondering if we were going racing with White Zombie at PIR. You see, Oregon’s weather in the Spring can be anything, going from foreboding black clouds and hail, to sunshine, then wind, then rain….this is during the course of one day! This is how Spring has been so far, that is, up until this week. We’ve had a few days where the temps rose from cool high forties to low fifties, to high 60’s with one day even touching 70! Then yesterday, we reverted back and the day started off cold and rainy but then, it cleared up dramatically and the day turned into early evening with the temps in the 60’s. The forecast is calling for glorious mid 70’s both Saturday and Sunday….drag racing weather is finally here! In fact, the 7 day outlook has no rain in sight and high 60’s every day.

With this backdrop, I told Jay ‘no’ to going racing. What, perfect drag racing weather after waiting all Winter, and team Plasma Boy is absent from the race track? Here’s the deal. We’ve made a commitment to show up at the High Voltage Nationals in Joliet, Illinois, just three weeks from now, an we’ll be there as planned. It would be foolish and selfish, to go racing, break the car, then be a no-show at this first-ever race where lots of people are counting on us. Instead, the car is being ‘pumped up’ and readied for its debut at the Route 66 track more than half way across the great USA.

Each weekend has been packed with EV building activity, much of it going into Baby Blue, the 276V Datsun minitruck I wrote about last week. Marko and I worked on Baby Blue again yesterday, Saturday. Today, Sunday, is White Zombie time, and as I type this, Tim Brehm is on his way here. The new pack of Aerobatteries are being installed today, but this time there’ll be 30 of them, not the regular 29. Though the Zilla tops out at 348V nominal, it’s the ‘nominal’ part we’re dancing around. Assuming a pack at 360V can rise to 450V under charge with each battery peaking at 15V, to keep in the safe operating area of ‘under 450V’, the max nominal pack recommended is 29 batteries at 348V. We’re pushing things though and are going with 30 batteries and will do ‘charging things’ in a certain way to stay out of trouble. I do not recommend that others try this with their street Zilla powered EVs and I certainly don’t want to cause Otmar any grief over this, but hey, this is racing and if we can push something a bit to go quicker and faster, than so be it. I’ve also got the master’s OK on my 360V plan, so it’s not as if he doesn’t know what I’m up to

Other changes to the car include the high rpm field weakening circuit that’s nearly completed, and the still-to-be-done gear ratio change to a taller 4:10 over the present 4:57 ratio. Hopefully, our killer hole shot won’t go away with all that low end torque we have on tap, and the taller gear set will keep the car in series mode longer for an even quicker 1/8 mile time than the present best 1/8th mile of 7.59 seconds. In the parallel mode with a slightly higher voltage pack behind the controller and the taller gears to pull against, the motor torque will stay stout longer as the controller is held in current limit longer. Top end acceleration should be very strong. Near the end of the run, Tim will hit ‘the button’ and bring on field weakening to keep the Siamese 8 humping all the way up to 7000 rpm and hopefully, terminal speeds exceeding 110 mph through the traps as we bust into the 11’s.

Will Jim’s mighty Siamese 8 hold up to this? Will the Hawker Aerobatteries stay together? Will the Zilla keep its smoke in (stupid question)? Will Marko’s minitruck not break down? Will its generator keep running? Will the charger hold up under continuous high currents across the country? We’ll all find out in less than 3 weeks from now at Route 66!

See Ya…….John Wayland

Plasma Boy Racing ‘We blow things up, so you don’t have to’
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com

Hello to All,

Mike Chancey wrote:

John Wayland wrote:

I agree with both of your assessments. The truck’s acceleration was borderline, it was very heavy and felt cumbersome to drive, it slowed down on steep hills, and it took forever to get up to near 90 mph, but amazingly it ‘did’ reach the very high 80s on level ground.

The component choices have changed quite a bit since the Beastie was built.
Ya think? Certainly, things are soooo much better nearly tens years after Red Beastie was conceived and built!

Things you couldn’t go then you can do now. I wonder how it would drive with the batteries wired in one 240 volt string with a Zilla 1K for a controller? I don’t think the performance would be quite so tepid, though you would have to be careful on the battery current.

Yup, excellent idea. I’d do the 240V pack and go with a Siamese 9 permanently left in series wiring mode and keep the 5 speed manual. The Z1K is compact, yet very powerful. You could restrict battery current to 250 amps to protect the wet cells and give them the same very long life (35k + est. miles on the Beastie’s pack and still had 60+ miles range when I sold it), but be able to send 1000 motor amps for the first 1/3 -1/2 the available motor rpm into the Siamese 9. This would make about 4 times the torque that I got with a single 9 inch at 450 motor amps.

Add on a PFC-50 for charging and you could have a very awesome EV.

Yes, that would have made charging so much better.

What do you think?

It’s something someone might want to do. You’d still have a very heavy conversion, but it would perform much better than the one Dick and I built.

See Ya…..John Wayland

Hello to Richard and All,

Richard Acuti wrote:

Optima batteries I’m familiar with. I have one in my DeLorean. I visited the Orbital website and it seems to me that Orbitals are the same thing only they are manufactured by Exide.

Is this correct?

No, not correct. Similar? Yes. The Exide Orbital in fact, got its start as a made-by-Optima cheaper version of the Red Top starting battery. I was at the factory and got to see Both the Optima and Exide versions being manufactured. Back then, Optima made a rather bland looking all grey colored battery with the identical case as their regular RT and YT batteries (only all grey), but stuffed it with less active materials, so the Exide licensed battery was lighter and only had 650 cca instead of the RT’s 800 cca ratings. That was then….today, Exide has their own design battery they build themselves. Though it looks like an Optima, it is taller, narrower, a pinch longer, and 40 lbs. vs 44 lbs. for the YT.

>Does Orbital have an advantage over Optima?

In tests performed by qualified EVers, the mighty Exide Orbital can blow away any Optima YT with 2000 amps discharge capability vs about 1400 max amps from a YT. The rated ahrs is different, as one might expect between a 40 lb. battery and a 44 lb. battery, at 50 ahrs vs 55 ahrs.

Hawker batteries appear to be a different animal. AGM technology but they appear to be smaller for lighter duty. Definitely not traction batteries…not for a 4 wheel vehicle anyway. I’ve read that some of you use them for accessory batteries. Is this correct?

Way off here. Hawker batteries ‘can’ be smaller, as they make a lot of models to choose from. Lighter duty? This one had me laughing, sorry, I’m not making fun of you. Hawkers are legendary for their ‘extreme’ heavy duty nature! Little 13.5 lb. Hawkers belt out 800 amps all the way down a drag strip! I know of no other lead acid battery (excluding TMF type) that can routinely do this without harm. Hawker also makes deep cycle AGM group 31 12V batteries (larger than the group 34 Optima YT and the same size as Optima’s group 31 model), and very soon will have an Optima sized drop-in replacement. Yes, many use the smaller sized Hawkers as 12V accessory batteries, but many have also used larger hawkers to power their entire EV. One of my EVs runs on 29 Hawker batteries.

See Ya…..John Wayland